I'm done with my "process." Mormonism no longer bothers me like it used to. I feel apathetic/over it. Although I couldn't care less about what people believe anymore, I do care when it comes to me and my family. My child will not be brainwashed like I was. Now that I know what's out there, I will protect my child from it at all costs.
ANYway, someone (I suspect I know who...) called the ward we would belong to and gave them our address. We've had a lot of unexpected visitors (if this person is reading, I'm sure they're feeling very proud of themselves...many Mormons have no problem with crossing boundaries - especially in the name of their church - we won't be giving them our new address). The first time the missionaries showed up, we invited them in and had a very warm conversation. We talked about our jobs, school, families back home, etc...and then moved onto the church. The missionaries asked us why they hadn't seen us. I mustered up my courage and said, "Well...I don't want to make you guys uncomfortable, but I have unofficially left the church due to the history I studied about it. I won't get into it with you right now."
One of the missionaries pressed. Uncomfortable because one of the mishies was brand-spankin' new in the field I said, "I really don't think you want to get into it with me. I promise the information I have will hurt your testimony. Going through this process is not enjoyable. I was depressed for almost four years..."
The missionary then said, "We've probably heard it. Just tell us one thing that bothers you. If my testimony isn't strong enough to handle it then I've got something to work on." (Yeah, kid. I thought the same thing).
I told him to tell me what he's heard.
"Oh, you know. About blacks and the priesthood, polygamy and stuff like that."
I then looked at Jake who knows just about as much as I do and said, "You've hardly scratched the surface."
The missionary challenged me, "Enlighten us."
I took a deep breath and related in detail a lot of the information I had regarding the 9 different versions of the First Vision, their evolution, the timeline, the significantly different accounts, and where the accounts came from (something that real historians need to know in order to deem the information credible).
I thought the Newbie was about to shit a brick. Poor kid. I knew that would happen.
The more seasoned missionary then asked me, "What have you gained since you left?"
I thought for a moment and almost said, "Oh my gosh, a HUGE weight has been lifted off my shoulders because I no longer feel guilty for listening to my music too loud, watching an R-rated movie, saying a curse word, etc etc etc." But, had I said that, they would have thought I was "past feeling." i.e. I'm so far gone from any spirituality that "evil" things seem okay to me now. (For those of you who are not familiar with Mormonism - trust me, I know this sounds crazy).
So Jake said, "Her life is actually a lot more rich. She cares a lot more about humanity."
The missionaries furrowed their brows. I expanded on what Jake said, "See, once the thought crosses your mind that this life might be it, you begin to care a lot more about it. You begin to live in the moment. Feel insanely sad/angry about any suffering felt by any living thing - human or animal. I no longer take my life for granted. If this is it, I want it to be very special. Nothing wasted."
The missionaries didn't know how to respond. So, they read a scripture, said a prayer, I gave them cupcakes, and they were on their way.
The next week, the bishop showed up. Very nice and fairly young. He asked me how much contact from the church we wanted. I said, "Well, I'm out...but you'd have to ask Jake how much contact he wants." The conversation was polite and ended quickly. The next week, the Relief Society President showed up. I had to tell her the same thing - that I don't believe (Umm...side note: do you understand how awkward it is to meet a very nice person, have a nice conversation - at first - and then tell them that you don't believe in something that is incredibly important to them? It's awkward).
The missionaries showed up again but Jake wasn't home so they weren't allowed to come in (I know, it's weird).
The next week, I was talking to my mom on the phone - mid-morning on a Saturday. I was bra-less and hadn't even brushed my hair yet. There was a knock at the door. The dogs went nuts. I stayed quiet, looked out the peep hole, and saw two more Relief Society sisters outside. Bra-less and in deep conversation with my mom, I had no intention of answering the door and didn't. They left a Christmas card and a loaf of bread. While we appreciated the bread, can they CALL before they come over? Ever?
Friday night I about lost it. I was tired after a long day of work and had a work party to get ready for. Jake picked me up from work, we had a nice, bad-traffic-free drive home, suspected nothing... We get the perfect parking spot and begin walking to our door. As soon as we see our door, there are three missionaries standing there. GAH!!! They're so nice, but can they CALL??? Can we set up an appointment? It was the worst timing.
We invite them in (this time, both Jake and I a little frustrated and feeling a little obligated to sit and chat), sit down, chat warmly but awkwardly for about 15 minutes when I looked at the clock and said, "Well, we've got somewhere to be..." and then one of the missionaries interrupted me and said, "Oh, don't worry. We've got another appointment at 7. We just want to read a chapter out of the scriptures with you." Mind you, our party is in about 45 minutes and I wanted to wash my hair. Their timing couldn't have been worse. On top of that, I know a helluva lot more about their church than they do. I wasn't really in the mood to listen (or participate in reading) a whole chapter of the scriptures. So I joke and say, "Ahem...a whole chapter?"
The mishy responds with, "We'll pick a medium sized one."
Again, mustering up my courage I said, "I don't want to make you guys uncomfortable, but I'm sure they've already told you I left the church..." one of the missionaries solemnly shakes his head "...but I can assure you that because of what I've learned, I won't be coming back. Now, I've really got to get ready..." (I then turned the obligation to Jake...oopsies) ..."so, umm, Jake, if you want to participate, go ahead. But I'm going to go upstairs and get ready." And went upstairs.
Jake and I are both starting to become very, very annoyed.
When we have a baby and we've got these unexpected visitors coming over at least once a week, knocking on our door...I'm going to peeissed. What if I'm breastfeeding? What if I'm trying to get the little one to sleep? What if the little one is already sleeping and they wake him/her up? I will be LIVID.
So, how would one tactfully say, "STOP COMING OVER!!" I mean, they should at least be courteous enough to set up an appointment, right?
21 comments:
I don't know if you were just wanting to get it off your chest or if you wanted ideas, but if you want ideas, here's my thoughts. Since you probably don't want to be rude/harsh, I'd say send a polite letter to your local ward saying that you do not wish to have any more contact from the church, no letters, no visitors, no phone calls. To be super-polite, tell them that you really don't want to involve the police or a lawyer, so can they please be sure tell all their people to remove your names from their contact lists, etc?
If you continue to get visitors/contact, you can either send another letter saying that you will consider any more contact harassment (since it is) and you will involve the police if they don't leave you alone, or you can jump right to reporting them to the authorities or talking to a lawyer. You have a right to be left alone when you've asked a person/organization to stop contacting you.
PS: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=no+solicitors+sign&x=0&y=0
First of all, I will definitely be purchasing at least two of those signs. I'd also like to write one of my own after baby comes that says, "Sleeping new mother and baby inside. Knock and die."
Second, I really like the letter idea. We're also considering getting a PO Box to give out to family members who will likely give our address to the church.
I like the PO box idea!
Answer the door naked just one time, and they'll stop coming over. Don't ask me how I know.
Bahahaha! Genius. I did tell Jake that if they come over when I'm feeding, I'm totally gonna let a nip slip. Your idea us MUCH better. I mean, hey. If I'm in my own house, I can do what I want...
Dude, I think you have been nice enough. If you are nice they just take keep harrassing you. DISENGAGE. It's the only way to go. I was nice to a jehova's witness once and the next thing I knew I was reading to her and her friend from the bible. Firmness doesn't have to be impolite. They may take it that way, but it doesn't have to be. You don't really care what they think do you? answering the door naked would be funny, very funny, but it's a little passive aggro. Just tell them to leave you alone. They know they are bullying you. They don't have the right to tell you how to live your life and question your decisions. And you don't have to answer to them. You don't need them. You are an adult in the US of A. You can flip them off and it wouldn't matter. You can find another social world to become a part of. You could probably even start your own. You do not have to answer the door. EVER. Okay, I'm done. :0)
I think you should tell them that you know they mean well, but you are not interested in talking to them or visiting with them and to please leave and not come back unless they are there to talk to your husband (is he still going?) but never to come back without an appointment. When they ask you if they can make an appointment to visit, tell them that their visit isn't important enough for you to make the time in your schedule to meet with them. Smile and thank them and close the door.
I have found that if I am direct about not wanting them to come over, and do it with politely and with a smile, they don't bug us. I haven't been bothered in quite a while.
Priscaknits and Tex, initially, the visits didn't bother me...so I was too damn nice. Now I'm starting to feel really bugged and just need to be brave and tell them to stop. Like you said, it's not impolite EVEN if they interpret it that way. Thankfully Jake isn't going anymore and is really tired of feeling like the project as well. Since I don't have their number, the next time they show up (which they will) I'm going to tell them to stop coming over. Nicely. I mean, really. They're wasting my time and theirs. Not worth it. We're a lost cause :)
I feel your pain. Definitely do the PO Box. Oh and I love the sign that says something like
We love our vacuum
We found God
And we gave at the office
NO SOLICITING!
I think you know what to ask for this Christmas....
The letter idea is great. You have been more than courteous! Love the: I gave them cupcakes, and they were on their way. -- so cute!! The post is really interesting, I don't know a lot about the Mormon religion.
I'm agnostic-deist personally, and so I really appreciated the answer your husband gave about humanity. Not being certain of an afterlife absolutely makes you value your life and those around you!
I was raised very Christian myself.
Anyway, good luck! Hope it goes well. You certainly don't want to be dealing with this when you start getting further along in pregnancy or when the baby comes! You'll have more important things going on! :)
I agree with Macha. I had to do something similar--sent a message to my bishop requesting absolutely no contact via any means at all. So the annual Christmas card arrived the other day, addressed only to my husband. Sigh. I couldn't say no contact on his behalf, so we could still get visitors. But if your husband agrees that he doesn't want contact, that's probably the best way to go.
Gah! You guys are all right. I just need to be brave. I'm getting to my breaking point, though. Next time they show up, I'm definitely going to say something - nicely.
Forget tact! Seriously!! They are not being tactful. They are not being polite. They are HARASSING you. Use your pregnancy (and its hormones!) to your advantage. Tell them you do not want to see them again. And don't say please.
Or, sic your mom on them the next time she visits :)
I had that prob too with our ward. We said our friends are obviously more then welcomed, but we don't want the missionaries over. IF they just drop by, I tell them I'm busy- because most of the time I am. If they can't make an appointment then I can't do it. I have life to live, kids to take care of, etc. If they don't get that- too damn bad for them. And yes, you NEED that sign- that's awesome.
My guess is that they are mistaking your civility and good manners for an interest in returning to church. They probably believe that you couldn't possibly be nice, polite, and *apostate*; therefore, you must want to come back to church unbeknownst to you.
We had the same issue up until a few years ago, when I let two EQ dudes stand on our front porch in the pouring rain (I did not invite them in) and told them not to insult my intelligence: I knew where the church building was located, and if I wanted to go I would be there.
Michelle, my mom's so damn brave. I've told her she might need to be a bouncer at my house...now if I could just get her to move out here... I'm brave about some things but am working on becoming a lot more upfront like my mom.
BlueCode, I feel the same way. I still have a lot of Mormon friends who I absolutely love. They are more than welcome any time. With that being said, we respect each other's beliefs. That's a line we just don't cross unless someone asks. I'd be a lot more appreciative of the missionaries and their company if they let us know when they were coming, and church was not the topic of conversation. Ever.
Heather, you're probably right. Although, after our last mtg, I'm hoping they think I'm a lost cause. But the fact of the matter is, a nice/polite "apostate" doesn't make sense to them. So I must be interested in what they have to say... Gag. I really like what you said about going to church if you want to. I wish the church would just see that with people like us. I mean seriously. If they can see that your track record was EVERY SUNDAY (seriously) until you were 23...and then one day you just stopped going - they should know that if I want to come back, I'll be there.
Since I have to deal with this "issue" ;) with my current calling. The leaders aren't .... allowed isn't quite right, but close... to not contact you. You have to send a formal letter requesting your name removed and whatever level of contact you wish for. Could be none, newsletter emails, letters, phone calls, etc.
I like the new momma sign though. I was always in a panic whenever I was feeding Charli that someone would come over. My home teacher did come once and I was still in pjs with my hair everywhere and he hasn't come unexpectedly since. :)
Once again, I didn't read the comments, so I'm sure you've gotten great advice and I might be repeating some stuff, but...
You have to stop being nice. Which sucks because you're a nice person, but I don't think they're getting the picture. In their mind there's still "hope" to get you back because you aren't being a jerk to them. I would call the Bishop, tell him to talk to the missionaries and Relief Society and tell them to stop contacting you. I'd tell him that if you ever want contact with the church, it has to be instigated by YOU, not them.
Since you're not in Utah anymore, it can't be passes off as a neighbor thing I'm assuming. So, I would think that you don't *have* to be nice on account of them (them being all of them) living by you. Not that you should be a jerk, but leaving the door open at all is making them think they can get in.
I'm not sure if that last part made sense, but I hope you get it sorted out. While I'm active in the church and ironically my calling is a ward missionary, I would be super pissed if I kept getting bugged like that. But really, our ward missionaries don't even mention the church. I'm trying to become friends with a mom of twins a few houses down and I think she thinks it's under the missionary pretense which kind of makes me sad. She's been avoiding me and I know it's because she wants nothing to do with the church. If only she knew my real intentions...
But yeah, in your case, they're just coming over for church purposes and they need to know that that's not ok.
Sorry, that comment was freakishly long. Just wanted you to know that I think you're great and although you don't need it, you completely have my support. :)
Sorry you're getting love bombed, Foxy. The next step is usually shunning, and that can be just as or more tough.
But you'll get through it for sure. Many have before you, and many will after you. It's nice to take the high road when your stamina and desire to do so allow, but please also keep in mind that it is beyond okay to be like, "Enough, people. Enough." It's not rude; it's a boundary you've set, and if it shifts position, that's okay, too.
You are surrounded by true unconditional love not the fakey clique stuff that often degenerates into Frenemy Land when people try to trample your autonomy.
But I've never worried about you and your ability to be yourself, to speak you mind, to keep the peace when prudent, and to fight when necessary.
With much love,
JNOV
(CAPTCHA is "recupert.") Whoops. Maybe not. It's "exatede"?
My ward totally leaves me alone. It must be easier when you're single?
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